Question for all regarding detergent and non-detergent oil usage please

Being new to the community of older Wheelhorse tractors, I made what I believe to be a mistake regarding the use of detergent oil in the older 1973 Wheelhorse Raider 12. The manual specifies nothing except API SB or better. No mention of non detergent oil anywhere. Now, when I bought this tractor from Geno, he figured I knew what the heck I was doing with it, and sent me on my way. Little did I know, when I changed the oil, sludge and dirt and small animals came out of the drain. Yep...I proceeded to put SAE 30 DETERGENT oil back in place since the "sludge had drained." I am admittedly stumped by the simple concept of detergent vs non detergent here, so I mentioned to Geno, that I would like a topic on the forum regarding this subject, so as to possibly prevent someone else new to the older units from making the same error in judgement. It should be known that the tractor was run for less than two or three minutes on the SAE30 detergent oil, at which time it was drained back out and Shell SAE30ND was put back in place. This 12hp Kohler sounds terrific, but has smoked under acceleration and deceleration since purchased. Sign of potential issues soon to come?? Would there have been immediate damage to the rings or other internals from the draining of the original oil and installation of the detergent oil? Just need to be made more knowledgeable about how to properly care for the old 40 year old beauty. Thanks for anyone and everyone's input on the subject, and I hope it helps future buyers and owners of Wheelhorse products.

So What was your final outcome?

After a quick google search it came up with numerous write ups on this topic. It seems the topic is very subjective. Here's one that stood out to me.

www.cardwelldist.com/dev/Cardwell-Blog/N...t-For-Your-Equipment

Pretty good article AJ with a few good points. They just neglected the fact of whether an application has an oil filter or not...

Yeah AJ, I read that article as well, and I suppose I am just curious as to whether or not a 3 minute idle and detergent SAE30 could have caused any internal damage. I guess time will tell, but for now I have opted to run the SAE30ND as suggested.

FewMoreMiles wrote: Yeah AJ, I read that article as well, and I suppose I am just curious as to whether or not a 3 minute idle and detergent SAE30 could have caused any internal damage. I guess time will tell, but for now I have opted to run the SAE30ND as suggested.

Don't worry Jeff. Detergent oil won't hurt it at all. I don't really think anyone "truly" knows why they say to use only non detergent in these engines. Its defiantly not because of age, because I know people that put it in their old hit and misses. Detergent oil is really only NEEDED in cars because A. they get used for 3000+ miles before an oil change, B. they have an oil filter, and D. there bigger engines, more cylinders, more crud. But don't worry, it won't hurt it at all.

Actually, Gary (for those who don't know him he's worked at Kohler, Briggs, and Tecumseh) and he said that the best thing you can use in these old engines, especially kohlers, is synthetic, non detergent oil. I think 10w-40.

They say to use non-detergent because there may be many years of dirt and gunk in the bottom of some of these oil pans. Once you start cleaning up the pan it all ends up in the bearings and up against the cylinder walls. Wouldn't take much time for a few hard pieces to score a cylinder wall pretty good. Who knows what lays in the pan of a 40+ year old tractor.

Think of the engine like a sediment bowl type fuel filter. You want the garbage to settle at the bottom and stay there away from anything important.

Big problem with these tractors, or anything without a filter for that matter, is that is no filter to catch this stuff once a detergent oil is used and it all gets broken loose. We all know what that means...

My 51 Chevy is the same way. No filter, non-detergent only.

Yup just like a good septic system you want that crap on the bottom of the tank, not in the drain field.

Geno wrote: They say to use non-detergent because there may be many years of dirt and gunk in the bottom of some of these oil pans. Once you start cleaning up the pan it all ends up in the bearings and up against the cylinder walls. Wouldn't take much time for a few hard pieces to score a cylinder wall pretty good. Who knows what lays in the pan of a 40+ year old tractor.

Think of the engine like a sediment bowl type fuel filter. You want the garbage to settle at the bottom and stay there away from anything important.

Big problem with these tractors, or anything without a filter for that matter, is that is no filter to catch this stuff once a detergent oil is used and it all gets broken loose. We all know what that means...

My 51 Chevy is the same way. No filter, non-detergent only.

Ya. Might be just a good idea to take the pan off and scrape it. The kohler on my raider had a ton of crap in it. No wonder why the oil would always get black after less that 30 mins of running. Also with detergent, the sediment (mostly the smaller stuff) stays in the oil. Which will scrap the cylinder and piston, also scoring the journal on the crank.

Sound advice guys. I have only been around newer vehicles and "toys" to speak of, and thought I would just jump in and do things as I have always done. Glad Geno made me aware of my mistake the other day, and set me down a proper course of maintenance. It definitely makes sense that, unless the oil pan is removed and the motor is thoroughly flushed (perhaps at a rebuild stage?) then it is best to run non detergent oil and let the sludge buildup rest where it has for many years.Thanks again for the elaboration and opinions on this topic. Very important for new users of older equipment!

FewMoreMiles wrote: Sound advice guys. I have only been around newer vehicles and "toys" to speak of, and thought I would just jump in and do things as I have always done. Glad Geno made me aware of my mistake the other day, and set me down a proper course of maintenance. It definitely makes sense that, unless the oil pan is removed and the motor is thoroughly flushed (perhaps at a rebuild stage?) then it is best to run non detergent oil and let the sludge buildup rest where it has for many years.Thanks again for the elaboration and opinions on this topic. Very important for new users of older equipment!

Really you shouldn't use detergent oil in any small engine without an oil filter. Even if you clean it. That way the partials in the oil that were broken up from the detergent is caught so it doesn't score the cylinder or piston, and the babbits.